"I know what you need..." An Ethical Problem:

[wolven7]

So. We want those we love to be happy, to be healthy, to flourish, to thrive, in all the vague and nebulous senses of those terms, right? We want the best for those about whom we care. But there is a potential problem, in this equation, on which we soon hit when we start to stratch the surface of this wanting, and that problem is of conceptualisation. What I mean, here, is what is it that we want for our loved ones, when we say that we want them to be happy? Are we wanting only what they think they want? Are we wanting them to encounter any- and everything that could possibly make them happy? Are we wanting them to find happiness in their secret wants and desires?

All of these have problems, but it's the latter that interests me most, becasue it's the latter on which I'm most often tempted to act. When you know someone-- either because they directly confide in you, or because you have known each other for long enough to know when they want a thing-- you may be confronted with the desire to push the desired situation toward them, to nudge and shape things, in this way.

From my own personal experience, I should not do these things. Not directly, at any rate. Like everything I do, it's often "Too Far, Too Fast," for other people, and that causes the thing they wanted to break down and turn sour. Nudges for some are shoves to others.

So I talk to people, find out what they want, get them to find out what they want, and keep talking to them, until they walk themselves there. It's much more fulfilling and lasting for them, that way.

So. What do you want?

Comments

[unknownbinaries.livejournal.com]

This is convoluted.

There's also the question of whether what makes them happy will also be okay with you.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

A VERY important question that I missed. Thank you.

[drgnsyr.livejournal.com]

That right there, that is the source of all the conflict in my life right now. And possibly for the last 3 years? Yep. Well, that and being able to pay the bills. And hormones. And home ownership. But mostly that. Yeah.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's a complex equation, when it comes down to it.

Try this one: How can we know if, when we push them toward the thing they secretly want that makes them happy, we will still be happy with the kind of happiness they attain, as a result?

It's... tricky.

i think

[raoin.livejournal.com]

i want to work for a company that makes breads and other baked goods.

specifically i want to get up at fucking stupid o'clock and go to work and have a master baker/chef tell me exactly what to do, and learn how to do that thing really well. i dont really care if its seven days a week.

and i want this job to pay as much as i am currently making per hour now.

it would be preferable if this business wasnt a store-front but rather a supplier.

Re: i think

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I might be able to get you some numbers, if you start to seriously lean that way.

[moonandserpent.livejournal.com]

You still sound a bit like Mr. Mordan whenever you ask that.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Yeah, well... Apt comparisons are often apt ;)

[not-hothead-yet.livejournal.com]

I can't say what I want in "public"

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Understood. Screened comments are available.

[raidingparty.livejournal.com]

Reminded of Genie going *POOF*"What do you need"*POOF*"What do you need"*POOF*"WHAT DO YOU NEED!"

I have many philosophical quandaries about that idea, starting with making oneself happy:

-If one could push a button to make oneself happy, would one do it? While I was depressed I had a whole bunch of resistance to this idea because for the first, it wouldn't improve anything, and for the second, it would be artificial. I've since switched positions; if one has the option to get something desirable, and it has no negative bearings on one's other goals, there's no reason not to.

-Sooo... if one could push a button to make others happy regardless of other circumstances, why not?
--There's the fear of changing their characters (part of why I never considered antidepressants). Honestly, there's no way around this one. If you consider something to be "of the highest good", then it's safe to use and can only improve the recipient; if you don't, then it's not.
--There's the problem of messing with their free will. One response is to say the ego is a lie and since we're all the same universal matter, your choice is the same as their choices and vice versa. Another is to give them the gift, clearly marked, and leave the option of opening it up to them; or to reuse the previous analogy, to point the button out to them. Insert joke about finding happy buttons here.

Okay, braindump out of the way:
I want to feel love as strongly and sweetly as my last girlfriend. (One of my favorite phrases here, "You have to break to grow.") In the same vein as the happy button, can one experience love regardless of circumstances?
I want my bones to be well-aligned, my fascia and tendons clean, my muscles mighty, my intrinsic health to be whole.
I want my needs to be covered, regardless of work (note that this isn't the same as expecting pay for no work). I also want the same for those I love - which is hard for me with so many of my friends struggling. I faintly want it for everyone, but I don't feel that as strongly.
I want to do good work, and for it to be recognized. I especially want Mad Scientist University to sell more than 5000 copies.
I want to figure out how to play, create, present, and distribute "Metaworldgame".
I want to continue to create a body of fun and interesting dance work, and refine some of my previous pieces. Archival would be good.
I want to find opportunities for everyone to do good work, and be recognized for it. Need to remember to check in with Economics department...
Since I'm egotistical enough to consider myself a superior genetic being, I want to create progeny.
In a probably-related desire, I want lots of fantastic sex.
I want to experience diverse cultures.
I want to see a million skies.
I want to figure out where everything goes, and feel the flow in my life.
I want to lift the veil; part of that being figuring out what that means.
I want to eat fantastic meals. I have a strong conflict here with my non-waster mentality and scavenging. Unless I accept mediocre meals sometimes, or do all my scavenging in the Four Seasons' dumpster... :P
I want recompense for the things I feel have been taken from me. Alternatively, I could have forgiveness, since none of those were really "needs".
I want all the stories.
Similarly, I want a way to pause and catch up on everything I think I've missed.

[raidingparty.livejournal.com]

In the girlfriend vein, I've had more than five years to figure it out, I might as well find love again. And in the same idea as above, there's no reason not to be happy.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Very true.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Another is to give them the gift, clearly marked, and leave the option of opening it up to them;

Precisely this.

Unless I accept mediocre meals sometimes, or do all my scavenging in the Four Seasons' dumpster... :P

I think that you can make fantastic meals from ordinary ingredients.

And forgiveness is the better way to go. AFTER those who've wronged you come offering recompense on their own.

[raidingparty.livejournal.com]

"I think that you can make fantastic meals from ordinary ingredients."
Absolutely! And I'm a fan of improvising.

"And forgiveness is the better way to go. AFTER those who've wronged you come offering recompense on their own."
The difficulty being, I can't force them to return things; I can only control myself. Which again, could count as others if you believe the 'external = internal' theory mentioned above.
There's almost that same resistance: The initial response is, "But if I'm happy/forgiving/etc., that makes the situation all right.", but that isn't necessarily true.