Something i hate.

[wolven7]

Massive Attack - [Exchange]--- The idea that Understanding and Enlightenment has made us less sacred, and less aware of the nature of sacrality. (Warren Zevon - [Excitable Boy]). I think that there are modes and forms, to everything, and that all of these modes are important, in various ways, and are of equal importance, in the scope of the all.

And i don't think that Understanding any of them is a detriment. I hate the thought of it, and i hate the fact that the position, itself, is a necessary component of infinity. Because it means i have to understand them, too. (A Star Called Wormwood - [Synthetic]). Because that's what my way is... Continual understanding. Deja Vu. SOmething about MySpace, and Mperia... Odd...

Anyway. There's something i hate. For me, more and better understanding reveals the secrets of the universe, and gives me real ultimate power(™).

And most of you never answered my question: When you hear the phrase "The Apocalypse," what does that mean, to you? What does it mean to hear people talk about it? (The Dresden Dolls - [Blueprint (Live)]). If it's nothing, then fine, but it's something i'd like to know, if you could spare the time.

Thanks.

{2.15Keep your eyes and ears open today, WOLVEN, because you could come across some interesting information. There could be some changes happening around you, and you could hear details about what is really going on. Pay attention to what others are talking about, because the clues could be right in front of you. Or you might read something that sparks your curiosity. By following the trail like a detective, you could uncover something important.

The Meltdowns - [Battle Hymn]--- Interesting advice, there. Thanks.}

Comments

[paosparti.livejournal.com]

mostly these days when I think of the apocalypse; I tend to think of A dog named Dog, demon in a Spiffy car that didn't so much fall as saunter vaguely down-wards, an angel that doesn't want to give up his books, and so on.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

One of the best books, on the subject, to be sure.

[renatus.livejournal.com]

So, um, what? Some people actually think that knowing more makes us less special, somehow? What the fuck. I don't see what's oh-so-pure-and-sacred about being ignorant and dumb. I've figured for a LONG time that the more you know about how things are and how they work, the more you can appreciate them and the more you can see how sacred they truly are.

As for apocalypse - I see it a few ways. One thing that comes to mind is that popular fire-and-brimstone view when someone mentions it, and I keep a sharp ear/eye out to figure out if I should be backing slowly away or not. Another that comes to mind is something I read in a shamanism book in grade 11 (I was doing a project for an english class), about how this tribe had a belief that if one struck a quartz crystal it would release energy, but if one struck it too hard it would be the end of the world. It sounded silly to the author until he talked to an anthropologist, who said that the crystals could potentially release enough energy if struck to kill the holder - thus effectively ending their world. So I see it that way, kind of, the world as we know it ending. Which may or may not mean actual physical death.

When it comes down to it, that's how I've seen 'apocalypse' for a long time; the end of the world as we know it. This doesn't have to mean destruction, it can and more likely does mean a mighty amount of change, which can be for good or ill.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

People like to be comfortable, and being comfortable is more important to some than understanding. Ignorance is, indeed, bliss.

And Fire and Brimstone are... wonderful things. But Change is what everything is all about.

[tribeofone.livejournal.com]

When you hear the phrase "The Apocalypse," what does that mean, to you?

A theoretical conceptual level of badness happening that due to the fact that it is based in a faith that I don't follow I really don't fully grasp, thus to me it seems theoretical, and unreal, it is a level of badness that happens in movies and books, not in real life.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Greek: "tearing the veil."

[mr-hinzelmann.livejournal.com]

I can't help but feel that, while the idea of a terminal universe is inherent in all western traditions, that the idea of an apocalypse arises from our inability to dehumanize the universe. Think about "God man man in his image", no, "man defined God in man's image." Our death is ineviable so the universe must die? I think that's a litlle naieve. Everytime there's a noteworthy geological or social upheaval, some moron starts screaming, "APOCALYPSE!", but these things all pass. If there is a great singular apocalypse, then it will occur because everything has stagnated at the same time, and it will be a time of transition, not a time of termination. Our problem dealing with it comes from our selfserving microeconomic view of the world, or rather, our interest in circumstantial social equity as oppossed to a broader concept of categorical justness or balance. Perhaps, if we'regoing to deal with this concept at all, we should stop trying to make the universe like us and start being more like the universe.

On an additional note, while fundamentalists are interested in taking the Bible at its word, St. John the Divine, most scholars have decided, was writing a political allegory in "Revalations" it was about the fall of Roman Oppression. But seriously, what do the PhD's whove devoted their lives to the topic know when compared to a Baptist minister with no divinity training? (Did you know that? There's no training required to be a minister in the Baptist Church!)

[wolven.livejournal.com]

But we are just like the universe. Everything is. So, our working influence, thereupon, means that the universe is exactly like what we want it to be. Quantum Democracy.

And St John was high off of his ass, when he wrote his Revelation. I showed him the mushrooms, my self.

Everything does end, everytime something changes. Every smallest incriment of time, the universe ends and is reborn, slightly different, and time is the thing we invent to cope with change.

And yeah. I knew that. Depends on which branch of the church you mean, though. Most ministers I know had many years of schooling.

[mr-hinzelmann.livejournal.com]

But it's the rebirht that's relevant, the very insance of REbirth iputes transience which is contrary to the standard view of apocalypse. Yeah, i know that they're post-apocalyptic prophecies, but they all involve stagnance, which seems contrary to the universal nature. The problem in your quantum demopcracy theory is that everything gets a vote, not just people, if we are of the same stuff. Yes, and St. John was stoned off his ass, but it doesn't make it NOT a political allegory, any more that it validates Bivlical literacy. I know that most ministers have had significant schooling, but Baptists are notorious for rewarding "the calling" with a paycheck and a house.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

The commonly held idea of the Apocalypse means fire and brimstone, and death, and "Grarg!" But the Greeks knew the term for what it was, having created it: "Tearing the Veil." I hate that phrase. Sounds so New Agey. Anyway, it's a removal of the things that blind us, from a deeper understanding of things. If you were an Apocalyptic, you wanted to bring about constant deeper change, and freshness, to the world.

And yes, in Quantum Democracy Everything gets a vote, but the votes that seem to matter, to humans, right now, are those of the observer. And we still have a shaky grasp of what that means to Us, let alone what it means that the cat in the box isn't its Own observer. Observation dictates understanding, at present, and we, as a species, are very unwilling to let anything Not of our species be able to observe.

[mr-hinzelmann.livejournal.com]

Doesn't seem like our place to make that call. if there is any hope at all it lies with [everything you think you've disempowered]

[wolven.livejournal.com]

It may not be our Place, but it doesn't mean that we (collectively, and necessarily excluding certain indivdual members of the Heading) haven't done it.

[mr-hinzelmann.livejournal.com]

Absent real authority, any power exerted is ephemeral and tolerated at the whim of the universe. The clock is ticking, my friend

[wolven.livejournal.com]

That's the point: Everything creates the universe. Everything creates everything. The toleance is that of waiting to see whether something is for the good: Whether people can be convinced of the efficacy of a plan. And by people i mean the universe. If the universe can't be convinced, then it goes away, it has no bearing. Science over Magic, but there's a reoccurence of interest, in what is called magic, because it is still Useful. It still does things, and is not that different, at all.

When everything can understand that it's already everything, and that it already works in concert with itself, and that each part is contingent on each other, and the actor (user) understands that, intrinsically, as well, then things happen. Things can be done, because they're already there. Infinite probability is made manifest, because it has to, somewhere, and it might as well be here.

[mr-hinzelmann.livejournal.com]

Once agian, you espouse an universal awareness and the Fouthr dimension thwarts you at every turn. You ask for a species that can barely tie its shoes and communicate with itself to universally accept multiplanar existence. You're theory works in a vacuum, but every generation has tried it, repeatedly, and because of the radicalness of the message, so little survives for the next to build on. You my make 1000 steps forward, but ignorance and time will push the next generation 999.9 steps back, you need to mass a front of a scope the defender's of status quo will never tolerate. If if you could gather the strength and martyr everyone, you might make a showing enough for the next generation to not start from the very beginning.

Bah, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." It's a continuum, and science represents the tangible efforts at step one, but the interest in magic recognizes that at least we recognize that there are more steps.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Exactly. There are many roadblocks to it being done, and what the fuck does that matter? Because it's hard i shouldn't try? I shouldn't go out and espouse the views of work, understanding, change, violence, evil, good, reform, Retribution, Justice? No. I won't not do it, because people will forget. And it's not always a start at the beginning. There are weak points, in the continuum, where things leak through, and people understand more, open up Further. Those are leaps ahead, and those are remembered.

Omnia Mutantur, Nihil Interit.

Now stop bitching, and help me start a revolution.

[mr-hinzelmann.livejournal.com]

Who said I wasn't helping. But I didn't match your reasoning Categorical to Circumstantial, and vice versa, you would lose focus and balance. Remember there is a reason that yin and yang chase one another, not because they are going around in circles, but because the motion keeps the wheel turning.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Indeed indeed. And the same goes for you.

Now back to work with the both of us.

What does it all mean to me

[astrophenominal.livejournal.com]

ocolypseevelation of the end of the world in the bible. i am not familiar what the exact meaning in the bible means. But i do believe in an end to the way things are and a beginning of something new from that end. whether it be the end of civilization "as we know it" or life "as we know it" or the universe is imploding and restarting the big bang again. whatevr it may be the end of makes way for the birth of something new or old.

Re: What does it all mean to me

[wolven.livejournal.com]

The meaning, as John would have known it, would be the Greek. It's a transition and an understanding. And thank you.

Cool.

[unknownbinaries.livejournal.com]

Already told you my answer to the A-word thing...

And I've always wondered that myself. Why is the original sin related to Knowledge? Knowing is a wonderful thing.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Because ignorance is, in fact, bliss. Remember that dream, where i destroyed paradise, because i Knew things, and understood? If you don't know anything, you don't have any responsibilities to anything. Less pain.

[unknownbinaries.livejournal.com]

Meh, but you Cause more, or have the potential to. It's more dangerous to Everything, really, so that makes it doubly weird that the original sin is supposed to be Knowledge.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Yeah, well, if you're basely ignorant, you don't really remember to Breathe, either.

Maybe THAT'S how we solve the problem of idiots: Make them stupidider.