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wolven7So. Some questions, about some things... Moral, ethical dilemas, and the like. And maybe i'll extrapolate some of my beliefs, to make my position more clear... (Fleming & John - [Delusions of Grandeur]). First of all, i want to talk about cloning. Specifically, i want to ask what the problem is, in the minds of the populace. We have several possible places, where human cloning could go horribly, horribly wrong, and i don't deny that, at all. The thing is, we don't and never have needed to clone full human beings. The use for simple organ donation and modification, alone, would be wonderful. I think of that as another way to use genetic engineering, to combat disease. (Jeff Buckley - [Hallelujah]). Really, that's all people are doing, anyway, right now; the only difference is that they're doing it all on the Small Scale. And the genome level, and not the macrobiotic. Which, i guess, helps them sleep better, at night.
The problems, with cloning (playing god; Brave New World-style genetic manipulation creating a "master race;" the question of what happens to the Soul, if such a thing can be said to exist, &c), can be easily nullified, if we clone Parts, for the use of fixing diseases, and not whole humans. But, for now, let's speak to the soul. The soul, in most traditions that hold of a soul, is considered to be a spark of the divine and Infinite, correct? Therefore, it is a piece of infinity, always and ever-after connected with infninty. There's enough infinity, to go around, you know? (Meryn Cadell - [Why Do I Do]). If the body, as an incarnate being, can be seen as travelling, along vectors, within the infinitude of the Soul, and therefore God, then two of the same views on said infinity would simply do what they would do, if they had more access to greater realms of infinity. That is, if there were two of you, and you had always always wanted to see paris, or work on a cure for cancer, then you Could. It would still be you. But a separate and autonomous you. It gets confusing, Yes, but confussion does not equal immorality.
The above still applies, if you clone a lung, or an arm. Extrapolate that, a bit. I'll be happy to field any questions, afterward.
As to the "Brave New World" issue, we have always been interested in making ourselves a more resillient human race, and surviving, into the future. (311 - [Love Song (Cure Cover)]). If the genetic manipulation/modification aspect comes into play, we can simply consider it another level, there. That, however, i could see as being immoral. If you consider Nature and Technology to have a morality, i mean. As long as we don't simply choose the traits we "Like," and instead choose those which will further the Species, then we are fine. What i mean is that, if you want little Timmy to be a football star, then you show him a football, and play with him. See if he likes it. Pit Nature versus Nurture the traditional way.
So yes, there are some lines even i'm not willing to cross. I'm not saying that they're "Evil." I am saying that some of them give me the creeps.
D12& Eminem - [My Band]--- Next up, Stem Cell research. This comes onto this stage, from a side entrance, not wanting to be too conspicuous. As it makes its entrance, it tries to call attention away from the two friends with whom it enters: Abortion and Genetic Engineering. They are a controversial group, and they try to shuffle their feet, and blend. Stem Cell research does the second best job, across the board, despite its entanglements. There are so many benefits to this branch of research that it's not surprising that most of the community's problems with it come from its associations, rather than its self. Abortion is, and always will be controversial. It, also, goes into the questions of the soul life, murder, theft of choice, and so on. (Nellie McKay - [I Wanna Get Married]). It is not an easy question to answer, nor one through which we should rush.
I will say that i believe that, even if there is life and a soul, starting at the moment of conception, there is also something after this. Reincarnation, Hell, Heaven. Take your pick. So it's not like it's over, at death. That's my belief, though, and not everyone agrees with me, on all of the nuances, there. And there are more nuances. Yes it's a life, no that doesn't mean you go out and murder whomever you want, but it does come to the fact that it is the body of the mother, and the product of the mother and father (other extrenuating circumstances remaining as In Thought, but unspoken, for there are many), therefore it is, itself an extrenuating circumstance. If t he family can't afford it, or the mother will die. So on. It's none of it Cut and Dried.
Panacea - [VIP Torture]--- I'm not asking for you to agree with me, nor to convince me of your position, on these subjects. I simply want to hear what you have to say, about them. What your positions are, and why. Not why i should think that way too.
Or, like what happens, normally, when i post something like this, you could say nothing.
Later.
The problems, with cloning (playing god; Brave New World-style genetic manipulation creating a "master race;" the question of what happens to the Soul, if such a thing can be said to exist, &c), can be easily nullified, if we clone Parts, for the use of fixing diseases, and not whole humans. But, for now, let's speak to the soul. The soul, in most traditions that hold of a soul, is considered to be a spark of the divine and Infinite, correct? Therefore, it is a piece of infinity, always and ever-after connected with infninty. There's enough infinity, to go around, you know? (Meryn Cadell - [Why Do I Do]). If the body, as an incarnate being, can be seen as travelling, along vectors, within the infinitude of the Soul, and therefore God, then two of the same views on said infinity would simply do what they would do, if they had more access to greater realms of infinity. That is, if there were two of you, and you had always always wanted to see paris, or work on a cure for cancer, then you Could. It would still be you. But a separate and autonomous you. It gets confusing, Yes, but confussion does not equal immorality.
The above still applies, if you clone a lung, or an arm. Extrapolate that, a bit. I'll be happy to field any questions, afterward.
As to the "Brave New World" issue, we have always been interested in making ourselves a more resillient human race, and surviving, into the future. (311 - [Love Song (Cure Cover)]). If the genetic manipulation/modification aspect comes into play, we can simply consider it another level, there. That, however, i could see as being immoral. If you consider Nature and Technology to have a morality, i mean. As long as we don't simply choose the traits we "Like," and instead choose those which will further the Species, then we are fine. What i mean is that, if you want little Timmy to be a football star, then you show him a football, and play with him. See if he likes it. Pit Nature versus Nurture the traditional way.
So yes, there are some lines even i'm not willing to cross. I'm not saying that they're "Evil." I am saying that some of them give me the creeps.
D12& Eminem - [My Band]--- Next up, Stem Cell research. This comes onto this stage, from a side entrance, not wanting to be too conspicuous. As it makes its entrance, it tries to call attention away from the two friends with whom it enters: Abortion and Genetic Engineering. They are a controversial group, and they try to shuffle their feet, and blend. Stem Cell research does the second best job, across the board, despite its entanglements. There are so many benefits to this branch of research that it's not surprising that most of the community's problems with it come from its associations, rather than its self. Abortion is, and always will be controversial. It, also, goes into the questions of the soul life, murder, theft of choice, and so on. (Nellie McKay - [I Wanna Get Married]). It is not an easy question to answer, nor one through which we should rush.
I will say that i believe that, even if there is life and a soul, starting at the moment of conception, there is also something after this. Reincarnation, Hell, Heaven. Take your pick. So it's not like it's over, at death. That's my belief, though, and not everyone agrees with me, on all of the nuances, there. And there are more nuances. Yes it's a life, no that doesn't mean you go out and murder whomever you want, but it does come to the fact that it is the body of the mother, and the product of the mother and father (other extrenuating circumstances remaining as In Thought, but unspoken, for there are many), therefore it is, itself an extrenuating circumstance. If t he family can't afford it, or the mother will die. So on. It's none of it Cut and Dried.
Panacea - [VIP Torture]--- I'm not asking for you to agree with me, nor to convince me of your position, on these subjects. I simply want to hear what you have to say, about them. What your positions are, and why. Not why i should think that way too.
Or, like what happens, normally, when i post something like this, you could say nothing.
Later.
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Date: 2004-03-31 06:08 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2004-03-31 06:19 pm (UTC)White Zombie - [Blood, Milk, And Sky]
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Date: 2004-03-31 06:30 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2004-03-31 06:34 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2004-03-31 06:56 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2004-03-31 08:34 pm (UTC)People...Wouldn't be able to confine their twiddling to bettering things, or to being rid of genetic defects. It would be lent to vanity and to prejudice, IMO, and create yet another kind of prejudice in the world.
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Date: 2004-03-31 08:42 pm (UTC)no subject
a curious kittens opinion
Date: 2004-03-31 09:57 pm (UTC)Re: a curious kittens opinion
There are two kinds of genetic modification: That which follows along the strengths and evolutionary path, simply faster, and that which treats the Symptoms of things. When you go about "Antibacterializing" things, all you do is lower resistence. When you modify and evolve, along the path toward Having those immunities, so that you don't Need to antibacterialize everything, things work our better.
Nature is never fully out of the equation, as long as there's living, organic material, around.
Trust me, the more you read, by me, if you stick around, you'll understand that these things are all.. rather convoluted, in my workings. The ideals of Infinity, and Void, factor in heavily.
And i'm a Very Big propenent of the End of All Things.
Simply: There would need to be teaching that went with the technological growth and natural adaptation, so that people appreciate what life Is and That it ends (transcience, impermanence, Zen ideals of Discipline), so that, no matter what happens regarding longer life, life is fully appreciated. Whether you live 300 years, or 300 seconds, you realise that, to quote Neil Gaiman's Death, "You got what everybody gets. You got a Lifetime."
And, if you Are going to stick around, We're going to need a Name, for you. It's better if you pick it. Trust me.
Re: a curious kittens opinion
Date: 2004-03-31 10:50 pm (UTC)Re: a curious kittens opinion