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wolven7Akira - [Battle With The Clowns]--- Anything to be finite-- that is, for it to have borders, seperating its being and Self-Ness from other things... There must be Something Other, From Which It Is Separated. Clarity: If the universe has a border, then from and Between What does that border lie? If there is an Outside to the universe, then that outside must Exist, within Something Else. Because if Outside the Universe is Nothingness, then the universe doesn't Exist. Because it's not Nothing, if there's something In it, you see?
Now, I, personally, have no trouble at all going with all of these. (Jack Off Jill - [Horrible (Live)]). Integration, as i say, is key. But, if we're working in a Physics Frame-Work, then let's do that. What i'm trying to say is that, even if the universe is Finite, then it has to have something In Which to Be finite. Thusly, an outside world. Which can be said to be nothing but another "level" of the Tower. I mean universe. *grins* Heheh. (Voltaire - [The Night]). So Uni-Verse-- One Thing-- Remains consistent, in that way. But will That level, then, be said to be the end-all Finite Border?
It doesn't make sense to say that Nothing is outside of the universe, that we are a finite and bordered thing, because, even if were are bordered, even if there Is a wall, there cannot be "Nothing," in their sense of it, outside of it, because that would constitute Something existing in nothing, thusly making the Something the only thing there is and, for all intents, and purposes, infinite. (Iggy Pop - [Passenger]). You see what i mean? If i'm missing something, or not taking an angle into account, please tell me. I want to understand this, as much as possible.
Carmina Burana - [Ego Sum Abbas]--- As i said, and as you should all see, by now, the cracked out way i view the world has no problem calling the universe finite, infinite, soccer ball shaped, round, donut shaped, existing in nothingness, As Nothingness, a cell in a purple blade of grass. (Carmina Burana - [Olim Lacus Colueram]). I can see it being all of these things, at once. My problem comes when people don't see that this changes. Various factors of the whole thing mean that we have nowhere NEAR enough information to call this issue closed, at all. Because, like always, just because we've found new information, and that information synchs up with various other facets of life, and we can put it to practical use, doesn't mean those other bits we found that time are Gone. They are still there, and they still work, we've simply discovered a New Piece of the whole scene.
An analogy: "Wow. This water stuff Rocks. See? It's a Liquid, and you can drink it, and use it to clean things, and all kinds of wonderful things." (Marilyn Manson - [Cryptorchid]). "Oh wait, what's this Ice stuff? Wow, this rocks, it's a Solid, and i can float it, and build houses, and keep my Food cold, with it. Hey! STEAM! WOW! I can power turbines, and i can...." &c. and through all of this, you forget the previuos usage, and state of the thing, and you focus entirely on what New it gives.
The Adventures Of Jet - [Don't Make It So Hard]--- That's right, Water as the basic stuff of the Universe. Just call me Thales. Heheh. No, seriously. Don't. Anyway, i could have used fire, or anything with multiple forms and uses in each form. Each can be looked at as The Thing, Itself, when, in actuality, it's a manifestation, a State, a Facet of the Thing. Get it? Got it? Good.
"All things are an exchange for fire, and fire for all things." - Heraclitus
"Itself, by itself solely, one everlastingly, and single." - Plato
Later.
Now, I, personally, have no trouble at all going with all of these. (Jack Off Jill - [Horrible (Live)]). Integration, as i say, is key. But, if we're working in a Physics Frame-Work, then let's do that. What i'm trying to say is that, even if the universe is Finite, then it has to have something In Which to Be finite. Thusly, an outside world. Which can be said to be nothing but another "level" of the Tower. I mean universe. *grins* Heheh. (Voltaire - [The Night]). So Uni-Verse-- One Thing-- Remains consistent, in that way. But will That level, then, be said to be the end-all Finite Border?
It doesn't make sense to say that Nothing is outside of the universe, that we are a finite and bordered thing, because, even if were are bordered, even if there Is a wall, there cannot be "Nothing," in their sense of it, outside of it, because that would constitute Something existing in nothing, thusly making the Something the only thing there is and, for all intents, and purposes, infinite. (Iggy Pop - [Passenger]). You see what i mean? If i'm missing something, or not taking an angle into account, please tell me. I want to understand this, as much as possible.
Carmina Burana - [Ego Sum Abbas]--- As i said, and as you should all see, by now, the cracked out way i view the world has no problem calling the universe finite, infinite, soccer ball shaped, round, donut shaped, existing in nothingness, As Nothingness, a cell in a purple blade of grass. (Carmina Burana - [Olim Lacus Colueram]). I can see it being all of these things, at once. My problem comes when people don't see that this changes. Various factors of the whole thing mean that we have nowhere NEAR enough information to call this issue closed, at all. Because, like always, just because we've found new information, and that information synchs up with various other facets of life, and we can put it to practical use, doesn't mean those other bits we found that time are Gone. They are still there, and they still work, we've simply discovered a New Piece of the whole scene.
An analogy: "Wow. This water stuff Rocks. See? It's a Liquid, and you can drink it, and use it to clean things, and all kinds of wonderful things." (Marilyn Manson - [Cryptorchid]). "Oh wait, what's this Ice stuff? Wow, this rocks, it's a Solid, and i can float it, and build houses, and keep my Food cold, with it. Hey! STEAM! WOW! I can power turbines, and i can...." &c. and through all of this, you forget the previuos usage, and state of the thing, and you focus entirely on what New it gives.
The Adventures Of Jet - [Don't Make It So Hard]--- That's right, Water as the basic stuff of the Universe. Just call me Thales. Heheh. No, seriously. Don't. Anyway, i could have used fire, or anything with multiple forms and uses in each form. Each can be looked at as The Thing, Itself, when, in actuality, it's a manifestation, a State, a Facet of the Thing. Get it? Got it? Good.
"All things are an exchange for fire, and fire for all things." - Heraclitus
"Itself, by itself solely, one everlastingly, and single." - Plato
Later.
