...To scrape the sky. To make my mark...

[wolven7]

The question is "So What?" What does this magic bullshit Do, in the end, that people should care?

Specifically, oletheros asks: 'if you were in an elevator with someone who had the ability to influence your life and you only had five minutes to explain your concept to him, what would you say? i don't think you're concise enough to produce a purpose statement yet.'

I want the term "magic" to be seen as a perspective through which we can investigate phenomena and experiences. A term which holds in itself various aspects of other disciplines, but is not, solely, any one of them. I want magic to be seen as more than a throw-away term. Magic, as a category, gives us an understanding of a sense of control, of awe and wonder, of mystery, and of searching. It gives us the idea of rituals and particular psychological states, language and social stance, outward physical action and internal mental action, philosophhy and experimentation, combined, together, to achieve a goal of change in perspective, and/or the physical world. Magic has elements of religion, of ritual, of philosophy, of sciences, of psychological analysis, of linguistics, but, again, it is not solely any of these things, as these things are not solely the areas in which they overlap with each other. Understanding how these ideas work, and what magic can do, allows us to better understand, shape, and integrate with the world, around us.

oletheros, again: 'don't let someone else define your success for you, but also remember that it's nice to be able to point at things you have done and say "i did that." what do you have to show for yourself at this point?'

Magic-related: I've written several fairly popular articles on magic and popular culture, for NeedCoffee.com, with a perspective I wouldn't have had, if I hadn't studied magic.

I've given two successful public talks on philosophy and magic in pop-culture.

I've written a master's thesis on the nature of magical phenomena and magic as a category or conceptual frame.

I've taught classes on conceptual analogy and critical thinking, with a high success and approval rating from both the students and the university.

And, so far, i've helped built a pretty decent community of people interested in magic. Not a "tight" community, maybe, but an intricately connected web of individuals and groups.

I did that.

I've also done consulting and research on things I can't really talk about, yet, but those weren't done from a magical perspective, anyway.

So far, that's what I want to do-- either in academia, or as a consultant-- and what I Have Done.

"Then I'mma get me a diamond-crystal speed boat, paint it Gold."

Thoughts?

Comments

you didn't really answer my question

[oletheros.livejournal.com]

you gave me just as much information as i had before i commented yesterday. i knew that you wanted to further how magic is perceived as it relates to popular culture and all of that. it's a laudable goal. i want a million dollars. that's also a laudable goal.

the question i asked is "what are you doing?" i should have asked "what are you doing to achieve that goal?"

i still don't have any idea what the next thing you are trying to create/do/accomplish looks like. what is the next step you want to accomplish to get closer to your ultimate goal? how will that help you achieve your goal? what are your interim goals? how will you achieve your larger goals through incremental steps? none of that is obvious to me at this point.

also, your elevator pitch is far too long. it should be a sentence or two, max. and one of those sentences should include the phrase "and you can help me by doing [blah]."

if i was in a position to help you out and you gave me that elevator pitch, my reaction would be "that's nice." maybe i would follow up with "and you are doing what to accomplish that...?" or "and you need my help how...?" at which point i would get off the elevator you have lost your opportunity.

Re: you didn't really answer my question

[wolven.livejournal.com]

To achieve the goal, I'm writing and refining my ideas. Working on a book, largely. Seeking to actually put that community to wider use, in concentrated efforts, and starting my own consulting business, to give it a frame in which to operate.

My Real elevator pitch is actually "You have money. Money Please!"

I want to show people a way to think about and use magic, in their daily lives. You can help me by adding a grounded business perspective to the proceedings.

the elevator answer

[not-hothead-yet.livejournal.com]

you said what YOU want as a result of your goals but you didn't say what you OFFER to others in your elevator answer. The whole point of a pitch is to present the idea in a format that explains what the goal OFFERS to the listener. I understand what you want to accomplish for your own satisfaction but I would still ask "why should I care?"

The pitch is to answer that question. Make me care.

Re: the elevator answer

[wolven.livejournal.com]

It will give you a whole new set of tools and perspectives which which to understand people and the world. Be those people your employees, your friends, your customers, children, or clients.

Why shouldn't you care?

Re: the elevator answer

[not-hothead-yet.livejournal.com]

the beginning is good, although still evasive; I have many tools with which to understand people and the world, why should I be bothered to learn your set?

The last, turning the question back on the person, is bad. If you want to be confrontational, great, but you can't expect people to help you if you're going to demand they care just because you say they should. The ultimate answer to "why shouldn't you care" is "because I see no reason to care"

Which is basically the same thing again: make me care.

I'm sorry you don't like the challenge, but it is essential to getting the support and assistance you want.

Re: the elevator answer

[wolven.livejournal.com]

See below.

learn to manage expectations

[oletheros.livejournal.com]

a grounded business perspective focuses on results, credibility and reputation. i would advise you to pick a problem and solve it. more, do it in a way that makes other people with similar problems say "can that solve my problem?" and then let them solve their problems using your toolset. that gives you all three in one easy package. repeatable processes, measurable results and independent verification are your friends.

and make sure that it is a problem within a reasonable, limited scope. you keep aiming at the stars and cursing that they are out of reach. aim for something you know you can hit and you might just be surprised at the results.

Re: learn to manage expectations

[wolven.livejournal.com]

I have a good deal of experience managing expectations, and solving problems, for others. The problems I want to solve, though? Large problems, with a lot of little parts.

I have explained my goals to people, in person, in short structures, in tiny bits and pieces, so many times, that I am frustrated. I had to do it, for my thesis, and I will have to do it, over and again.

The fact of the matter is, what I want to do and why it matters can't be easily boiled down to a 30-second pitch, in an elevator, without resorting to crass materialism and selfish ends. That doesn't mean it doesn't Have Worth.

I can say that "The understanding of magical thought processes and manipulations will help you make more money, by allowing you to manage a shifting combination of variables," but that's not the full extent of it. It's about giving the people the tools to better operate in the world.

I can hit any number of small things. Small things are not what need to be hit.

Re: learn to manage expectations

[ladylabyrinth.livejournal.com]

The fact of the matter is, what I want to do and why it matters can't be easily boiled down to a 30-second pitch, in an elevator, without resorting to crass materialism and selfish ends. That doesn't mean it doesn't Have Worth.

But that's exactly what people WANT to know. "How can this make me richer/more powerful/more something crassly materialistic?" You want to change the world, and I'm all for that, but before you can change the world, you have to change the people, and to change the people, you have to hit their wallets. Sometimes they're more affected by a negative hit, sometimes they're more moved by a positive hit, but what it boils down to is that anyone who has the clout to move you forward will want some kind of tangible, immediate return on that investment. Sadly, there's no way around it. Show people not how it will make the world better, but how it will make their wallets fatter or how they'll get more power while minimizing their output, and I guarantee you'll get people flocking to you to assist.

Hit the small things. Once you've got solid footing, THEN aim for the big shit. Do it suck? Surely so, but you'll keep banging your head against a wall of indifference and "I'm not comfortable with that, don't ask me to leave me bubble.", if you don't.

Re: learn to manage expectations

[not-hothead-yet.livejournal.com]

the basis is not necessarily crass materialism either (although Ali poses it in a more concrete way) because the essence of what she says (if the ultra-specific materialistic sentence bothers your ethics too much) is

"how can this improve my life and how hard will it be for me to do it?"

People are interested in money, yes, but also other things that aren't so gauche. Losing weight, finding a soulmate, getting in touch with their inner artist, discovering the foundations of their neuroses, getting rid of their brain flaws, getting off medication, mending a broken heart, restoring optimism - all these things are goals tons of people clamor towards. Can you address any of them? Can you address several at once? Tell me how. Make me see that what you offer actually fits with what I need.

Re: learn to manage expectations

[not-hothead-yet.livejournal.com]

What seems to be happening is that no matter how many times you ask the question, you don't like the answer everyone gives you.

I'm sorry the rest of the world and academia especially does not find intrinsic worth in your value system. I'm sorry they do not find value in what you deem important. The fact of the matter is, they DON'T value what you do, they DON'T see what you see in it and they don't even have the beginning set of vocabulary and experience to grasp what you say without internal filters that are based on stereotypes and bad publicity.

You seem to keep getting caught in the pit of "this is important to me, why isn't anyone letting me go forward?" and the answer is very very simple; because it's NOT important to the very people who could help you go forward.
All efforts to help you find that place which will open their eyes have come to little because you seem to be in denial or something about their need to have a base from which they can build - a base that is far lower than yours.

Go back to your own beginnings.

Were you born knowing all you know now about magic? Were you raised to believe it, practice it, refine it, use it absorb it into your daily life?

What brought you to this point? Was it overnight? Was it a specific event or person?

Examine your own journey to this point and imagine you are now in charge of promotions for that journey. You have to sell people on the notion that the journey is worth their time and effort. You cannot do that if you keep insisting everyone recognize the souvenirs you own as being precious. Those souvenirs are meaningless to them.

You have to go back to the beginning of your own journey and place others at that point. Then figure out how to induce them to take those steps too, in their own way of their own volition.

Re: learn to manage expectations

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Wow that takes a long time. I've been at this for at least 10 years, now...

We'll see how it goes.

Re: learn to manage expectations

[oletheros.livejournal.com]

i understand that you're frustrated, but your explanation keeps boiling down to something that sounds an awful lot like "i've just invented this fantastic coding language that can do anything." and when someone asks you "what can it do for me?" your response is "it can do anything." which didn't answer the question at all (the correct response to a question like that is "what problem do you have to solve?"). which really doesn't bode well for something that's meant to help with communication.

when it comes to specifics, you have been maddeningly vague - almost like you don't understand what a practical application actually is.

trust me when i say i understand the pain of not having people understand what it is you are trying to do. and that's why i keep at you - because i think you have the intelligence and the wherewithall to accomplish some of what you are trying to accomplish. you have goals. but you don't have a plan for how you will accomplish those goals. consistently, that is the one thing you do not mention at all, anywhere.

do this: put your money where your mouth is. use your system or practice or theories to solve your problem. it's the only problem worth solving at this point, anyway. develop a plan. pick something that you can resolve within six months (that isn't a phd program) that will bring you one step closer to your goals and then execute your plan.

if nothing else, it will give you something to do that isn't a) talking about what you want to do or b) being frustrated that nobody else can understand how important this is.

Re: learn to manage expectations

[wolven.livejournal.com]

use your system or practice or theories to solve your problem. it's the only problem worth solving at this point, anyway.

Now that's the kind of idea that intrigues me...

Re: learn to manage expectations

[unknownbinaries.livejournal.com]

I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU THIS FOR A WHILE. Why does it always take someone ELSE saying it for you to listen? XP

Re: learn to manage expectations

[wolven.livejournal.com]

I wasn't saying this like it was the first time I had ever heard it. I was saying that, if this is what he meant, he should have said it like this, to begin with :PPP

I know you've said it, before, which is why I TRY to do that, all the time. I just thought I had a better handle on the doing of it, than I actually seem to.

Re: learn to manage expectations

[oletheros.livejournal.com]

this isn't at all what i was trying to say to you. i was just offering a strategy. i'm still not entirely convinced that you heard and/or understood what i was telling you.

Re: learn to manage expectations

[wolven.livejournal.com]

You said to do what it says on the label, and actually use my ideas to solve the problem I'm having of communicating and getting others to want to use my ideas.

Basically, you said, if i'm so smart, why aren't I rich/famous/successful/doing the work.

Re: learn to manage expectations

[oletheros.livejournal.com]

that's the LAST thing i said to you. the FIRST thing i basically said to you is "what is the practical application of this?" suggesting that you use your theory to help yourself was just a strategy to focus your attention on answering that problem indirectly. if there is a single work product that you want as a result of this soul-searching, it is a plan of action with achievable interim goals.

also note that rich, famous, successful and doing the work are four completely separate concepts and are not necessarily bundled together. it's dangerous to conflate them, even in jest.

Re: learn to manage expectations

[wolven.livejournal.com]

I was listing them as possible end goals, not stating that they were the same thing.

Another example

[karishi.livejournal.com]

The Healing Waters Project, as a magical answer to the Elevator Question, without crass materialism:
What does it do, and why should I care? It makes water clean using prayer. You should care because if I get the funding to teach it then hundreds of impoverished villages can be taught to filter their own water literally without a filter. Your small donation will save thousands of lives.

The Prayer Against Crime Project: It lowers crime rates in a heavily populated city using positive thinking. Without arrests clogging our legal and prison systems, it prevents crimes from happening in the first place by making people less likely to commit them.

As Robots put it, "See a need, fill a need." It's not a matter of appealing to materialism. It's about focus. What does it do? If it's the swiss army knife of the cosmos, and it is, you give an example you expect to impress the person on the elevator with you.
Or rather, because "what does it do" is technically not the right question: "What can one do with it?"

Re: Another example

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Figuring out how to narrow that down, right now, actually.