Unprepared.

[wolven7]

So. Two of the three members of my thesis committee-- you know, the people who are supposed to read my work and guide me through the preparation of said, so that I presented my ideas clearly, and fully, for whatever purposes to which I might want to put them, in the future-- don't think I'm ready to go on to PhD studies, and refuse to write me letters of recommendation. TWO.

[Edit 7.56pm: One doesn't think I'm ready, the other doesn't think we spent enough time interacting, in the course of my grad program, and thesis writing to feel comfortable writting me a letter.]

How the fuck do you not tell me this, while I'm doing the work? How, when I come to you, and I tell you what i want to do, do you not say, "Well then you should be focusing on improvement in these areas?"

Was I at any point unclear that, yes, in fact, I do want to go on to PhD work? Was I ever less than clear that I would at least Try for that? No? Then why wouldn't you tell me, as concerns became apparent, that you had them, and thought I should be addressing them? I'm not a fucking mind-reader, all the time, damn it. I don't know you so well as to be able to know things you don't at least Hint at.

Fuck it. I'm done, here.

I have things to learn, and businesses to start. Good Day.

Comments

[plantyhamchuk.livejournal.com]

OMFG. That is absolutely messed up, so so SO sorry to hear of this Damien.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

It's definitely not how I wanted to start my day, no.

[davidsfoley.livejournal.com]

I'm going to throw this out there: I think you need to be prepared for everybody who you want to listen to you to give you agonizing amounts of grief. Your work is simply that controversial.

How many letters do you need, and will any other former teachers consider it?

[wolven.livejournal.com]

I need anywhere between two and four, but only so many people who weren't involved with my thesis will have anything relevant to say about my academic development. So far I'm down to my director, and the coordinator of graduate teaching.

Haven't heard back, from others.

[davidsfoley.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm a little worried about my own recommendations, should I try to get into a doctoral program, but for much different reasons: namely that they'll think I won't be able to hack it.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Well, that Is one of the reasons I got, so I know how you feel :\

[not-hothead-yet.livejournal.com]

I wonder if they were simply allowing you the chance to come up with something surprising but acceptable. They didn't discourage your work on the off-chance you came up with something irrefutable. What was their reasoning about why you "aren't ready" I mean, what in hell means you aren't "ready"? I would assume that would mean you either haven't done enough research OR you don't know how to navigate the PhD studies pathway. From everything you've said so far it sounds like you have fulfilled BOTH yet they simply don't agree with your chosen path.


I think its time to start thinking of backdoor ways to present your thesis. I had a professor in Computer studies whose thesis was about object-oriented programming yet his whole thesis read like a philosophy paper because in actuality, that's what he believed; that a type of computer programming made a perfect philosophical metaphor. It was an awesome paper but I could easily see how if he had presented his original idea to a philosophy board they'd have laughed him out of the room. Likewise a computer board. He blended it beautifully and thus snuck his actual idea into things.

I think its time to start looking at being sneaky.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

I think you may be right,

[n3m3sis42.livejournal.com]

What Cass said about being sneaky. From your previous posts about academic meetings and thesis reviews and such, I get the feeling that you may not always succeed at working within their system. My understanding of academics has always been that regardless of how brilliant your ideas and abilities are, you have got to learn to play their game or you won't get very far.

Granted, I say this with only a BA under my belt. But those are my impressions, and I've found that my impressions turn out to be correct more often than not, even when I'm halfway talking out my ass (which applies to this situation).

With all that said, I'm really sorry you're in this situation. It sounds really frustrating, and there's no excuse for them not explicitly telling you all of this sooner.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Their system is flawed and I find it in need of change, so... yeah. Difficulty. And yeah, some of it's just downright mystifying. :\

[n3m3sis42.livejournal.com]

I have no doubt that their system is flawed and in need of change. But I think that in order to change it, you have to play the game first. Think of it as some kind of crazy espionage operation. :D

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Yeah. That's what I hear. But the question is, can i even stomach the bullshit, long enough? The amount of lying and twisting I have to do to even get people to Hear me... Bah.

Gets me really upset, just thinking about it.

[triskelmoon.livejournal.com]

I'm so sorry. That is unacceptable. And this is coming from the perspective of someone who has worked at a teaching hospital for 10 years. That is literally them not fulfilling their duties.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

It's... kind of upsetting. I'm requesting a meeting with the most recent person, because I really thought we had a much better relationship than that.

[kitsuchan.livejournal.com]

That seems like a good idea. Though it'd be good to go into the meeting as calm and not-angry as you can, and with a specific goal for the meeting, whether that's "Talk them into writing me a rec," "convince them that I actually am ready," "find out why they think I'm not ready," or "make them feel bad about not doing their job properly." I know for me it would be hard to focus on the first one without pressuring for a why, but sometimes it's more effective to go in with a "this is why you should write me a letter" and just ignore the fact that they originally said no.

That really is them not doing their job properly. A thesis advisor should know your future plans and talk with you about how your thesis will help you get there, and if you were clear that you wanted to go onto a PhD, they shouldn't have passed you unless they really thought you were ready.

I got rejected three times before I found my third letter of recommendation, so I have a lot of sympathy.

If you can't get enough letters, you should consider contacting the local community colleges about teaching a seminar, or at least giving a series of presentations, and then the person you work with on those can be a letter. Also, it's okay to reach back to undergrad profs or profs who didn't work with you on your thesis-- schools are more interested in your ability to think and write, not in your very specific topic.

Anyway, that's my advice from someone who just went through this process.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Thank you, very much. That's very useful advice.

[spiritualmonkey.livejournal.com]

Dood, that sucks.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it does.

Drinking.