My Offerings:

[wolven7]

What I share is planned. It IS calculated. It is Designed to allow everyone who knows something about me to feel special, for having that knowledge. Because they ARE special. They are unique and what they do (or, more often, DON'T do) with that knowledge can hurt me. The loss of words and the lack of communication between myself and people with whom I think I've shared something special is...devestating, to me. Hence, posts like the other day.

But Special does not mean Alone, and Unique exists in the Combination of our meanings, not in the Information I share, or the Data of the Facts.

To quote Placebo's "Post Blue": It's Between you and Me.

I ask you to ask me things, to request knowledge of me, because that's how I know how to show you that I trust you. That I want you to know me.

Interpol - [No I in Threesome]--- But that doesn't work so well, does it?

So. A new question, borne of my selfish curiosity, and my desire to Know And Have More Of You:

What is Trust, to you? What does it mean? How does one Show it? Tell it?

What happens when it is broken? Don't give me clichés, just tell me what it is.

My urge is to tell you that I can push whatever buttons you want me to push, but I have to know where they are, what they are, before I can do that, and I am not a mind-reader. (Iggy Pop - [I am a Passenger]). But that's... Sociopathic. True, perhaps, but uncomfortable.

I want to know you, for you. I want to know whatever you want me to know, and I want you to know whatever you want to know, of me.

And this is the last we'll speak of this, for a while.

Comments

[sadistic-apollo.livejournal.com]

that's a prickly one. Trust, is what I have in my abilities to understand people and what I have in people to do what i figure they'll be doing if they stick true to themselves. So, I trust people to be themselves, and if they botch it all up then it was my fault for not figuring them out correctly in the first place. ie I trust politicians to lie, not to fix things. and usually my trust is rewarded. now as for collapsing the wavefront into making all politicans liars, well that one bends my head a little bit.

When trust is broken it can only be repaired by a mix of faith and keeping of faith. Which doesn't happen all that much. So, in reality, it can only be mended by ignoring the breech and just going right on trusting.


what's worse, most times when someone says "trust me" they're really trying to say, "forgive me for this thing I'm going to do to spite you".

[wolven.livejournal.com]

When I say "Trust Me," I mean "If you know me, and know my plans, and are willing to Roll With Me, then everything will be Fine."

And thank you.

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

Trust us a willingness to make yourself vulnerable to another person. When it's broken, it gets, well, withdrawn.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

I am trying to make myself vulnerable... But one man's vulnerability is another person's deceptive manipulation. And I don't quite know how to... allow that to fix itself?

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

I think it depends on the intent of the vulnerability? Manipulation is not real vulnerability.

And sometimes, well. Making one's self vulnerable is just asking to be hurt, because not everybody will honor trust.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Very true.

It may be possible that I am trying to eat my cake, and have it, too... To be able to be open and vulnerable with those whom I trust, but shielded and safe, if and when that trust is breached.

Hm.

[l-the-fangirl.livejournal.com]

Friends help you bury the body. Trusted friends say, "Put down that gun before you do something STUPID."

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Well said.

what is trust, huh?

[momentai.livejournal.com]

[Anyone reading this should ask me questions so I can clarify. I find I am able to offer much "better" explanations when interrogated about such topics.
I am sure there's a term for that...]

I think it boils down to being able to rely on someone for something specific. As in you don't simply rely on me, but rely on me to do things a certain way. And if the case is that I will lie in certain situations than I see no reason for that to betray any trust you instilled in me.

Sure, you can take your trust away and bemoan the idea that you ever trusted me at all or you could step back and realize I did nothing that I did not warn you off before. I won't lie to you, I won't lie about you, I won't even lie about myself, but I will lie in order to protect you, if I have deemed that you need protection. You can very well tell me that you don't need protection and that I should never lie to you ever, but you are now asking me to trust you blindly.

How do I KNOW you don't need protection? How can I be certain as to how you will react to the truth? I cannot until I see how and by then, maybe it is too late. So, a lie is told, I see how you react, and after that, we can discuss if I will ever do such a thing again.

Trust doesn't mean we will never lie to each other. Trust means we will understand and accept the situations when we will lie to each other and be okay with that. Because, really, a lie ain't so bad. It's the how and why you used it that are bad. When it comes to areas that cannot be viewed as lie or not a lie, then it does get tricky to vocalize.

And just b/c I defend lies does not mean I adore them or even use them, just means I understand and respect them. I would love it if I could meet some one who would never lie to me, but I accept that while I am certain that I can always be told the truth and will still love you, others are not and so lies get told.

I know what trust is techincally and emotionally, but that is not important, from what I can gather. It's knowing how to give trust, how to take it, and how to cherish it that matter, and not many people understand those bits of it. We are scared, fragile, suspcious, weary, and so many other things that we just find it easier to not trust or to withdraw it when we imagine it was betrayed.

There's this old sci fi flick where a character asks

"Do you trust him?"
"Well, no, but he is my friend."

That really sums it up in an unspeakable sort of way. You just have to absorb the words to understand them, I doubt any verbal explanation would make sense.

What do I want from you, specifically, damien, or people I know? Sometimes I know, sometimes I do not. Maybe peace of mind, maybe solidarity, maybe companionship. I want to be able to "trust" that I can talk to someone and not be judged in anyway. I want to "trust" that my simple exisitence is enough to merit love from people whther I can help them or not. I don't know.

Re: what is trust, huh?

[wolven.livejournal.com]

I think that, if we trust each other, we should trust what we Know of each other, to know what we can and can't handle, and then work to present the unsavoury thing in a way that will be taken in and understood, so we can help each other become better.

Re: what is trust, huh?

[momentai.livejournal.com]

well, yeah, but if only it were that simple. As Joe was sort of saying, trust is a huge leap of faith and for my part, I have a reached a point where I don't see any percentage in keeping up the game of presenting unsavory things.

It never works out in the end, and there has always been an end once that thing gets presented.

[momentai.livejournal.com]

My trust is not exacatly calculated, but it is premeditated to some degree. You say you want to know me and that you want me to know you. It seems like a nice sentiment, but what more is it? I could try to ask you questions when you prompt, but tat doesn't do me any good. I can't think like that. I can't be made to perform on the spot, at least not in that type of situation. Something pureply for exhibition.

Then you say or imply that a blanket approach is undesirable to you. For me, that's really all I can do. I share very little here. It may seem like much to the unobservant, but it's not really. These words presented are are mere preface. The real knowledge comes from the distillation of these words and the synthiy of our thoughts about them. I write, I invite you to ask and discuss. From there, trust is developed.

If people come to me and talk about what I wrote, I develop a sense of who they are and I can then approach them in a more special way, a way meant to weave a bond. If they choose not to come to me, then that also allows me to develop a way to think of them and that way is dismissive. If they care not to discuss what I present for dicussion than they are of no use to me. I mean how can I care about someone who does not care about me?

So, I guess that is a form of trust to me. The ability to rely on someone to care about what I have to say and think and to rely on them to care enough about me, or respect me enough, to talk to me about what I think, what they think,a nd what we think about each other. If I lose that trust, or if it is never developed, it is devestating to me.

I feel useless and unappreciated.

How do you show trust beyond that or beyond not telling lies? I don't know. You just do stuff for each other. You do things with each other. You embrace me and show me that my presence is necessary and wanted and welcome with no reservations.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

One of the things about trusting one another, the digging and deciphering has to be mutually perceived, or the imbalance eventually kills the effort...

[momentai.livejournal.com]

I agree. I don't feel that the method of the digging has to match, but that would help. As long as both people accept they are both digging than I don't see why there has to be strife.

Spectra

[raidingparty.livejournal.com]

I think everything I have told you has been true, with the exception of intentionally comedic effects like "Patrick does not like big boobs."

I can tell you everything, since you are the Wizard.

In your role as Devil, I have a hard time trusting you, but I'm at least willing to try it out for a few minutes with eyes open to see what happens. In your role as Wizard, moreso, but only in response to specific questions.

Re: Spectra

[raidingparty.livejournal.com]

There's also the question of what is given before and after you ask, and personal economies, and... stuff.

Re: Spectra

[wolven.livejournal.com]

True.

Re: Spectra

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Just say the word.

Re: Spectra

[(Anonymous)]

See, the difference here is between someone asking you, "How do I get X?", and you tell them to do Y, and you telling them to do something unbidden. The latter might even help them with their goals, but because they don't associate it with what they want they have no reason to follow through.

Of course, the fact that most people would trust you to tell them the correct Y to get X also says something. And it looks like people are mostly willing to participate in the social worldnet experiment and other information-sharing projects, which is a lot of trust if you buy "knowledge is power".