Flesh

[wolven7]

Shrouded, caked, sheathed.

Out.

I am clarified in a chosen direction, thanks to a brief conversation with oletheros.

So do me the following favour, and tell me if you understand the following:

'I want to use the tools of communication at the disposal of all sentient creatures, to understand, enhance, and mutaully manipulate the levels of symbollic resonance, interpretation and interaction with the physical world. I want to change the way people understand the connection between thought, conception, belief, action, and effect. I believe that it will make people more powerful and capable, in their day-to-day lives, more willing to investigate, create, and experience patterns of "coincidence" or "synchronicity." I believe that the process of careful teaching and learning, in this area, will engender a wider sense of responsibility for the self, for personal actions and the effects of those actions on the wider reality.

'This will not eliminate "evil." This will not even eliminate stupidity. What it will do is work to make sure that everyone you meet has thought through their actions, has investigated what it will do to them, and to the rest of us, and that they have made their choice with those considerations, in mind.'

Now. What don't you understand about that? That's not an ironic question where what I really mean is, "This should be obvious." That's me asking what you don't understand.

Many people have said to me, in the past few months, that my ideas aren't clear, or that they are very dense, or that I am hypocritical in their presentation. Now, while I'm willing to admit that people are often full of shit, and have no idea what they're talking about, I also don't like to disregard any point of view without seeking to understand the thing that causes it. So i want to know: Do you understand what I'm trying to do, with magic, perception, technology, philosophy, language, all of it?

What is it that you think I'm trying to get done? I'd really like to hear it.

And, as an indulgence I've been meaning to steal, for some time, now, fill out the following:

N.A.S.A. - [Spacious Thoughts (feat. Tom Waits & Kool Keith)]----SECTION I MANUFACTURER'S INFORMATION

SECTION II HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS / IDENTITY INFORMATION

Joe Boyd Vigil - [Crashgroove]---SECTION III PHYSICAL / CHEMICAL CHARACTERISTICS

SECTION IV FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARD DATA

SECTION V REACTIVITY DATA

SECTION VI HEALTH HAZARD DATA

SECTION VII PRECAUTIONS FOR SAFE HANDLING AND USE

SECTION VIII CONTROL MEASURES

SECTION IX SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS

This is what is commonly known as a "MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET."

Portishead - [We Carry On]--- Here is one I found years ago. Surprise.

Anyway. Thanks.

Comments

[raoin.livejournal.com]

if i understand you correctly,
then i feel like you will have old model (people in our generation and older) compatibility and rejection issues with new model (people just being born or successfully indoctrinated - re-educated?? oh-my!).

i seem to hear/understand what you say your goal is, but i'm not seeing/hearing a 1-2-3 process or outlined-cloud process for doing it.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

That comes Next. First I want to know if people understand the goal, at all, then we'll talk about how to get there.

[momentai.livejournal.com]

You want to offer classes, brainwashing sessions, or a combination of the 2, in order to teach people how to better filter and decipher information and stimuli, in the hope that they will then apply self taught lessons about said data in a more comprehensive, efficient, and mutually beneficial manner than we currently do as a society.

You want this to happen thru a specific set of schools to help illustrate that the separation of said schools, as well as virtually all other distinctions among groups, is not so strict and such segregation leads to unnecessary confusion and lack of progress.

Is that right?

Also, I don't understand the MSDS. Were you asking people to find you a blank one?

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Minus the "brainwashing," yes, that's correct.

I was asking that people fill it out, in regards to Me.

[necrophonic.livejournal.com]

There's the possibility that people don't understand the concept you are conveying.
There's the possibility that they understand the concept, but are misunderstanding your words.
There's the possibility that they understand your words, and your concepts, and still disagree that it will work, and they're wrong.
There's the possibility that they understand your words, and your concepts, and still disagree that it will work, and they're right.

And of course, lots of gray areas between those possibilities.

I think I understand your social goals, and basically I'll just steal momentai's description, because he was more eloquent than I would have been. It's all the nitty-gritty "how does this work" and "how does that work" and "why does A + G = 5.32?" that I still strive to understand better. Ultimately there's a vague similarity to both or our end goals: Make people better, smarter, stronger, faster, because damnit, we have the technology and 6 million dollars to spend on it.

But most people think my vision of a better world is hell on earth, and even if that's not my intent, the paths I want to take and the methods I want to use will only bring disaster, not a utopia, no matter how much they think it will bring about utopia.

And basically that's my take on everyone ELSE'S ideas. That's megalomania for ya.

And I should send you some of the MSDS sheets for the chemicals I work with. You'd get a kick out of some of it.

[necrophonic.livejournal.com]

"But most people think my vision of a better world is hell on earth, and even if that's not my intent, the paths I want to take and the methods I want to use will only bring disaster, not a utopia, no matter how much they think it will bring about utopia."

make that, "no matter how much *I* think it will bring about a utopia" (which I don't, really)

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Got it.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

But most people think my vision of a better world is hell on earth... And basically that's my take on everyone ELSE'S ideas

Yeah, and that's part of the thing I want people to consciously recognise, accept, and integrate into how we work with each other.

I'd love to see those. MSDS sheets are often hilarious ^_^

One question

[karishi.livejournal.com]

Manipulation is typically thought of as unidirectional, because people like to have a plan and if there's bidirectional manipulation - "mutual manipulation" - you have to figure a way to maintain vision while your methods are shifting to deal with the input. What are your thoughts on how to be effective (affective?) while maintaining this method of mutual manipulation?

Re: One question

[wolven.livejournal.com]

The best methods I can find are those of deep consideration, detailed expression, and constantly paying attention to the ways in which we react, both individually and collectively, to certain stimuli.

As we do that, we will come to know ourselves and each other, in greater detail, and will be able to tailor our thoughts, actions, and expressions to the situation at hand, while retaining our selves.

Re: One question

[raidingparty.livejournal.com]

Similarly, someone objected to the term "using your friends", even if the "using" was mutual.

Re: One question

[karishi.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I don't think of those two issues as very similar. Objection to "using your friends" sounds like a moral objection, while concerns about mutual manipulation are based on purely utilitarian grounds: how do you maintain the integrity of the goal you're manipulating others to achieve when you are being manipulated in turn?
I can see an easy tit for tat scenario to answer my question, in which you are convincing several people to work toward your goals, they're convincing you to work toward their goals, and you're trading organizational simplicity for much higher capacity for focused manpower.
The neat thing about having everyone strongly interested in completing everyone else's goals comes when someone can't be directly useful, and opts to become an active meme-carrier instead, working to deliver the goal to someone who can complete it.

Re: One question

[wolven.livejournal.com]

This is the clearest statement that someone has understood what I'm trying to do that i've read, in a Long Time.

Re: One question

[raidingparty.livejournal.com]

And that reminds me of the difference between the image you have in your head when you start drawing, and what you have when you finish.

... which then leads me to... and I fully admit it's a far stretch... but I have an impression of the accessing of the idea realm as an "observation changes the observed" sort of effect.

And then we get into the alteration of Platonic ideals.