Important Conversations about Race

[wolven7]

http://matociquala.livejournal.com/1544999.html

Please read my response on the second page before talking to me, about this.

I have to go to work, now.

Comments

[renatus.livejournal.com]

Ah, I think you'll find her very interesting. Bear is my favouritest writer people, not in the least because she's such a class act.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Yeah, she really is. That impressed me, a great deal.

[n3m3sis42.livejournal.com]

THANK YOU for your comments. I have heard a million times that I am not supposed to have an opinion on this because I am a person of "Power/Privilege" by virtue of being white. But it makes me really annoyed when I constantly hear that the "accepted" definition of racism means that only the privileged can be racist. I also hate the fact that more often than not, people who disagree with that definition are dismissed immediately as ignorant.

I do not deny that I was born more privileged than most. Oddly enough, so were many people of color in this country. I am sure that they faced hardships that I never did because of the color of their skin. I will never have the perspective to judge whether their personal sets of hardships were greater or less than my own. Neither will they, for that matter.

I worked with a guy on my first internship who constantly made snide comments about "Mommy and Daddy paying for everything" because I was a skinny white chick who went to Emory. I have already stated that I was born relatively privileged. However, I worked full-time for most of my college career to pay my bills (in addition to my unpaid internships), I racked up student loans, I got a 50% merit-based scholarship, and my parents and I split the remaining tuition bill evenly. His comments really pissed me off.

I am not saying that my few months of being butthurt due to this man's issues in any way equal the trials of being a black person. Also, I personally don't consider this man racist, as he seemed to have been discriminating based on factors other than the color of my skin. But I am saying that clearly the bigotry is not all on one side and is not all about a single thing. It's basically just a way of life that we all perpetuate by refusing to see each other as people instead of epithets or assumptions.

I did not grow up racist. I refuse to believe that the subconscious messages I received via my Privileged White Person Upbringing permanently stamped me as a racist. My parents did not go around making disparaging statements about other races or cultures. My dad has extremely strong opinions about the Middle East situation that I mostly didn't know about until I was in my mid-twenties. I knew his general set of beliefs about the situation, but I did not know the vehemence of those beliefs because I guess he didn't want to influence me unduly.

I get very angry when I feel that I have to prove I am not racist. I get very angry when I see others have to do it, when it seems completely unwarranted. Oddly enough, I've seen white people calling other white people racist pretty often. In my experience, when there is a group comprised of people of a variety of races, everyone is too busy pretending that racism doesn't exist to actually make such accusations. Granted, that could be because of my privileged background, but it's still what I've observed.

I don't really know where I am going with this, but I really liked your comment. I don't know how to fix the racism/bigotry issue, but I suspect it will start with it not being all about race for at least a few minutes first.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

As you say, it's far more complex than just any single issue, and the sooner more people accept and work with that, the better off we'll all be.

Also, let's all think for a minute about the fact that everything we lump together as "white" these days? Not always that way. Irish, Italian, and, to this day, Jewish people. Not always "white people." Often harshly discriminated against, beaten to death, and run out of town. Enslaved? Damn near. All that was missing was the not being able to leave, as they liked. A key component, sure, but one of the only things missing.

Yeah. Things are bad for non-whites. Let's remember that definitions have changed, and can continue to do so, such that "white" doesn't equal "privileged" and that doesn't necessitate a "-therefore-bad."

I think that made sense..

[n3m3sis42.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was going to get into the fact that, for example, some white people (like me) are Jewish and being born privileged does not change the fact that we're part of a group that has a tendency to inspire genocidal rage in other groups. Obviously, Jews are not the only ones. There are all sorts of subgroups.

But then I decided that our hardships are sort of not the point either. I really think we all need to stop focusing so much on how persecuted we are before we can resolve this issue. That includes white people, too. It's a two-way street, all of it.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Thank you.

[smokierings.livejournal.com]

I got dogpiled on this point once.. made me wary of people for a good bit of time. Still not comfortable with the subject, though one day I'd like to actually manage a dialogue.

Thank you for being you. I had just started one of Ms. Bear's novels yesterday.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

I like to try to make sure I am, as often as possible.

I'd really like to see someone try to pull that shit, with me and most of the people I know. I was raised in a DC Suburb, went to a majority Jewish school, knew mostly kids of other ethnicities, outside of my family, went to a public school that tried to teach me Arabic, and so on, and on and on. Is this because of the colour of my skin? Is it Contra the colour of my skin? No. It's a merger of many factors, not least of which that I grew up in Washington, DC. A place with a ridiculously high concentration of non-white people.

So. Yeah.

[smokierings.livejournal.com]

I grew up in the Baltimore suburbs, mostly Jewish neighborhoods overall. Got beaten up a lot once I moved to public school for not being in the majority (in gifted classes, bookworm, female, or white, depending on the aggressor).

As a result, I cringe around aggressively postured people, regardless of their visual makeup. But see how often that reasoning holds water with someone who wants to take offense at my 'insult'. There's no defense once the labels start flying.

[necrophonic.livejournal.com]

I liked your response. It mirrors my thoughts on the subject fairly well. I judge people, individuals, and groups, as all of us do, because it's simply wired in our brains to assess things and assign values to them. I actually think a better word for what I do is "Jury" people. I "Judge" sounds like you're actually sentencing people to something, like saying that my judging homosexuality as deviant behavior would imply that I have decided they are evil and must be killed, where as by "jurying" homosexuality as deviant I'm stating that I view it to be a non-standard state of sexual orientation on the evolutionary time line, the implications of which may or may not be detrimental to the species as a whole, and may be a standard deviation from the norm that is in fact built into the coding as a whole and serves a function of some sort, as yet unknown to me.

And I know I hurt a lot of feelings when I sling racial slurs around, which is why I've tried to stop doing that, but I think it's just a more specific way of saying a person is a jerk. Like "redneck" is just a way of saying someone is a jerk that likes Nascaar... Y'know? It just has more explanatory power for the kinds of things that particular jerk does.

I don't ever judge or jury a person until they've done something to fit them into the hole of being a stereotype or being a jerk or whatever... I mean, I'm a stereotype nerd. I'm sitting here blogging and I'm about to go play Warcraft. I installed a sound card yesterday, and a video card last week. I ate pizza tonight. I have Thinkgeek catalogs. I'm a fucking stereotype. Calling me a geek explains something about me, and SOME people use it as a derogatory term for me. Some don't. Either way.

Everybody has a chance to earn my trust and respect, and I have yet to restrict somebody from doing that for any reason other than being an ignorant jerk.

[wolven.livejournal.com]

I think that's an entirely understandable method of action, and I like that term "Jurying." I'll have to think on that, some more.