Pagans and New Agers
Jul. 27th, 2004 09:40 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
wolven7Lamb - [B Line]--- We had a little discussion, today, in class, about the nature of Paganism, and people kept asking "Can you Define Paganism, For Me?" (Death In Vegas - [All That Glitters]). And that made me want to strangle them. If they want a single unifying factor, they can deal in "Earth Based." That's about as good as they'll get. It was a frustrating day. People listening to bits and snippets of these things, and hearing them as the end-all, and thinking that they are the alpha and omega of spiritual systems. There are connections, and correlations that you will never ever see, if you close your mind to them.
People trying to reduce everything down to analogs to one another, or as a holistic "It's all the Same," when neither of those works, all the time. You must be capable of adaptation and continual change, if you ever want to be perfect. Encompass all and, if you can't Encompass all, then adapt to all, switching between states as fast as is necessary, at the time. Even the schismatic dissonance is part of the whole. (OhGr - [Minus]). If we do not equally accept it all and reject it all, then we can never say we have the Answer. It's all deadly serious, and it's all a mug's game. All at the same time. If it's not, then it's not. However, at this point, it Is. Existant, i mean.
The problem is that everyone thinks that their way is the only way, and that bugs me, for many obvious reasons. I don't like the idea of having all the answers, unless you do. (Sneaker Pimps - [Becoming X]). For instance, kind of, i was thinking about the perception of Satanism, in the market, today. There are two views, here, and each has its adherents. These are the people who view Satan as a Metaphor, for the Ego Principle. "Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law," &c. Indulgences, excess, and the idea that the Self is all that matters, because from the Self Springs the World, and so on. Almost solipsism, but not exactly. This is a fine thing, and good, for those with self-esteem issues, who need a little boost into the world. Always start with the self. But it's a bit... anti-societal.
The other view is that of the "Baby-Eating Satanist." (Covenant - [Leviathan]). This is the idea of dark ceremonies, and human sacrifices, and calling upon the Dark Lord Satan to grant favour and honour, and so on. This is the popularly mythologised version, and i'm not going to call it "Wrong." Simply interesting. Both of these have their roots in the Christian tradition, as reactionary backlash of those calling for the inclusion of more than simply "Peace and Love Thy Neighbour," in the realm of an Omni-Predicate God. They wanted a reflection of the dark, and good for them on that. (Venetian Snares - [Intense Demonic Attacks]). The problem being that they call themselves "The Way It was meant to be." Everyone does.
No matter the traditions, it seems that every one has "The Way." I'll grant that some traditions are ultimately inclusive, and really do make room for everyone, but many religions tag themselves as getting it "Right," or "More Right." And that bugs the shit out of me. Think about the way that weighs on the mind: Everyone has the way things were "Originally Intended," and anyone who says otherwise is "obviously" a misguided idiot. Not at all worthy of their tradtitions, as you are of yours. No. Never that. You fuck.
Different symbols meant different things to different people. Same with days of the year, and modes of dress. There will be over laps, and changes, and severe disagreements, as to how to deal with things, and yes, certain things will steal and have stolen from other traditions. (Negativeland - [I Am God]). So what? It is in an effort to learn and grow, and understand, and gain knowledge. Think about it. Actually fucking Think about the basis of your tradition; the human model understanding of where you got your scriptures, even if they were "Actually" handed down to you, and/or heard in the fabric hum of the universe. Know both. Understand both. Consider both True. What evxactly do you have to Loose, by that?
Think about clones, for a second. If you understand every view on the human soul, the universal soul, and the energetic patten of the human body, then what you do when the issue of cloning comes up, is far more informed, whatever it actually Is. That you do. Killing children, adults, the afterlife, what is permissible, in the law, all of it has many more facets to consider, and if everything is true, then nothing is permissible. With ultimate knowledge, how can you act? In everything, that's how.
Oingo Boingo - [Insanity]--- Remember about the motion. From point to point, infinitely, as needed. A few quotes, and then i'll stop talking about this shite.
"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted." - Hassan ibn Sabbah.
"An' it harm none, do as thou wilt." - Aleister Crowley
"An' it harm some, do as thou must." - Aleister Crowley
"Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." - Aleister Crowley
I always knew that if i ever got the chance to meet Crowley, i'd probably detest him, on sight. Discussing those last three quotes, in class today, helped me to admitt that it's because we're too much alike. He held many of the principles that i evince, and he was a right fucking bastard, for it. Do everything you can, in every way you can, as you can, as you must, no more, no less, and never harm, unless you have to, or want to. That's about the size of it. Every group calls itself the End All, and that's cute.
Much respect.
People trying to reduce everything down to analogs to one another, or as a holistic "It's all the Same," when neither of those works, all the time. You must be capable of adaptation and continual change, if you ever want to be perfect. Encompass all and, if you can't Encompass all, then adapt to all, switching between states as fast as is necessary, at the time. Even the schismatic dissonance is part of the whole. (OhGr - [Minus]). If we do not equally accept it all and reject it all, then we can never say we have the Answer. It's all deadly serious, and it's all a mug's game. All at the same time. If it's not, then it's not. However, at this point, it Is. Existant, i mean.
The problem is that everyone thinks that their way is the only way, and that bugs me, for many obvious reasons. I don't like the idea of having all the answers, unless you do. (Sneaker Pimps - [Becoming X]). For instance, kind of, i was thinking about the perception of Satanism, in the market, today. There are two views, here, and each has its adherents. These are the people who view Satan as a Metaphor, for the Ego Principle. "Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law," &c. Indulgences, excess, and the idea that the Self is all that matters, because from the Self Springs the World, and so on. Almost solipsism, but not exactly. This is a fine thing, and good, for those with self-esteem issues, who need a little boost into the world. Always start with the self. But it's a bit... anti-societal.
The other view is that of the "Baby-Eating Satanist." (Covenant - [Leviathan]). This is the idea of dark ceremonies, and human sacrifices, and calling upon the Dark Lord Satan to grant favour and honour, and so on. This is the popularly mythologised version, and i'm not going to call it "Wrong." Simply interesting. Both of these have their roots in the Christian tradition, as reactionary backlash of those calling for the inclusion of more than simply "Peace and Love Thy Neighbour," in the realm of an Omni-Predicate God. They wanted a reflection of the dark, and good for them on that. (Venetian Snares - [Intense Demonic Attacks]). The problem being that they call themselves "The Way It was meant to be." Everyone does.
No matter the traditions, it seems that every one has "The Way." I'll grant that some traditions are ultimately inclusive, and really do make room for everyone, but many religions tag themselves as getting it "Right," or "More Right." And that bugs the shit out of me. Think about the way that weighs on the mind: Everyone has the way things were "Originally Intended," and anyone who says otherwise is "obviously" a misguided idiot. Not at all worthy of their tradtitions, as you are of yours. No. Never that. You fuck.
Different symbols meant different things to different people. Same with days of the year, and modes of dress. There will be over laps, and changes, and severe disagreements, as to how to deal with things, and yes, certain things will steal and have stolen from other traditions. (Negativeland - [I Am God]). So what? It is in an effort to learn and grow, and understand, and gain knowledge. Think about it. Actually fucking Think about the basis of your tradition; the human model understanding of where you got your scriptures, even if they were "Actually" handed down to you, and/or heard in the fabric hum of the universe. Know both. Understand both. Consider both True. What evxactly do you have to Loose, by that?
Think about clones, for a second. If you understand every view on the human soul, the universal soul, and the energetic patten of the human body, then what you do when the issue of cloning comes up, is far more informed, whatever it actually Is. That you do. Killing children, adults, the afterlife, what is permissible, in the law, all of it has many more facets to consider, and if everything is true, then nothing is permissible. With ultimate knowledge, how can you act? In everything, that's how.
Oingo Boingo - [Insanity]--- Remember about the motion. From point to point, infinitely, as needed. A few quotes, and then i'll stop talking about this shite.
"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted." - Hassan ibn Sabbah.
"An' it harm none, do as thou wilt." - Aleister Crowley
"An' it harm some, do as thou must." - Aleister Crowley
"Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." - Aleister Crowley
I always knew that if i ever got the chance to meet Crowley, i'd probably detest him, on sight. Discussing those last three quotes, in class today, helped me to admitt that it's because we're too much alike. He held many of the principles that i evince, and he was a right fucking bastard, for it. Do everything you can, in every way you can, as you can, as you must, no more, no less, and never harm, unless you have to, or want to. That's about the size of it. Every group calls itself the End All, and that's cute.
Much respect.
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I had somethings to say but...
Date: 2004-07-27 06:49 pm (UTC)Maybe It does...
Maybe It doesn't matter...
::shurgs:: And that's all you get from the depressed guy.
-Luke
Re: I had somethings to say but...
no subject
Date: 2004-07-27 07:21 pm (UTC)Pronunciation: 'pA-g&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, civilian, country dweller, from pagus country district; akin to Latin pangere to fix -- more at PACT
1 : HEATHEN 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person
3 : NEO-PAGAN
thanks m-w.com
I still use the old definition when asked what is paganism. It is those that follow a faith or set of teaching that is not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. In other words every set of teaching that are not of the tribe of Abraham. The Budists, the Taoist, the Shinto, the Jain, the Sihks, the Hindus to name a few. I then explain that if you take the teachings of these "pagan" faiths and look at what they teach as far as how one is to conduct one's self in life that all religions/paths tend to teach the same core set of ethics. It is the cerimonial stuff that changes. Do not lie, do not steal, do not covet, do not commit adultry these are part of the 10 commandments and they are the same ideas and things taught by various pagan religions. They are universals principles for having a society. The fact that there always seems to be a group of baby eaters (a term I picked up that just seems to fit) whom follow the oposite teachings in secret, they always have to be in secret. The rest of any society would not allow them to exsist otherwise. But even amoung the pagans there are the "baby eaters" those that simply go against the main core of things that tie a society together. The idea of the Satanist is as real as their exisitance. I know of groups across the country that practice ritual human sacrifice. I know they exsits. I do not agree with it but I am not going to stop them. they have been arround for as long as anyone can remember and they are every where that man is it is part of the nature of the human animal, to be inhumae to his fellow man. One of the first things that I learned before I was ordained was that my way was definately not the way for everyone. Leave them be they will find their own way all we can do is listen and provide council when it is sought. Otherwise leave them to their fates and they wiil leave you to yours. Wrapped these thoughts in tthe context of cloning and the arguement is simple, a clone is still an adult human, therefore it is wrongto kill a clone. I am not saying don't figure out how to make them for organ transplants and such as if we can figure opart of it out we should be able to figure out how to clone just the needed parts in time. Give the lab boys time and see what they can do.
no subject
Date: 2004-07-27 07:28 pm (UTC)Make that neither of those works, EVER. You'll always have the personal interpretation, or even in the purest imitation of religious principle, the colour of the person's life and experiences and personality tingeing the untouched Idea.
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Date: 2004-07-27 07:43 pm (UTC)I suppose evenually I'll figure out where I stand on the whole subject of religion, but until then, I'm determined to learn the art of head explody.
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Date: 2004-07-27 07:47 pm (UTC)Pi-e e-su do-mi-ne...
*splutt*
do-na e-is re-qui-em...
*spla-DOW*
no subject